Horsemen's Roundtable: Showring Conflicts & Ethics
with Barry Castagnasso, Dennis Mays, Dr. Mike Powers, & Eddie Freitag
published in The Draft Horse Journal, Summer, 1999

It’s no secret that draft horse exhibitors have become more competitive and serious about showing. Unfortunately, an increase in conflict has accompanied the competitiveness. It seems there are more conflicts today than ever. In addition, judges receive less respect than ever before. It has become difficult for many shows to find a willing judge. This is understandable when it is commonplace for a judge to receive more complaints and derogatory remarks than compliments or praise. What can be done to minimize these conflicts or is it simply a fact of life?

We’ve asked some of the industry’s leaders to address the subject. To cover the wide spectrum of interests, we went to a vet, a farrier and two top breeders, representing Belgians, Percherons and Clydesdales. All of these individuals are top exhibitors and, more importantly, all are top judges. Meet our panel of experts:

Barry Castagnasso, Hayden, Colorado - “A few years ago, I was invited to judge the show at Ogden, Utah. It has since become the Rocky Mountain Regional Show. At the time, it was called ‘The Golden Spike Draft Horse Delight.’ At the end of the show, one of the exhibitors called me ‘the dumbest _#_! that he had ever seen.’ When I related this story to my brother, Tony, he said, ‘Only one guy called you that? You must have had a pretty good show.’ And so it goes with judging.

“As far as our current activities, my wife and I operate a small broodstock operation of registered Clydesdales. Our main show at this point is the National Western Stock Show in Denver. We focus on developing young gelding prospects for some of the major hitches. If it were the cattle industry, you would call what we do with our pasture and range country ‘backgrounding.’ We supply a place for these good young colts to develop.

“As far as showring experience, if I make it a few more years, I will have had forty years in the showrings across North America. Along with my dad and brothers, I have shown at most of the major shows in the U.S. and Canada. At one point, we were making 35 shows a year, so I’ve seen both strong and weak jobs of judging.”

Eddie Freitag, Alameda, Saskatchewan - “I’m married, have three sons (all showing horses for someone else!) and have three grandchildren. I’ve ‘retired’ from judging for the most part. I feel honored to have judged just about every major horse show in North America since my first judging job at the Cedar Rapids (Iowa) Sale in 1959. My wife says if a judging invitation should happen to come from Hawaii, ‘we’ will come out of retirement! We have 40 head of Belgians and I hold a membership in both the Canadian Belgian Horse Association and the Belgian Draft Horse Corporation of America.

“My personal judging experience has been that I’ve had less criticism from the exhibitors than from the spectators! Everyone in the stands is an ‘instant judge.’ The way I look at it, showing and judging hasn’t changed much in the last 50 years. The competition surely has, especially in the hitch department. At the Manitoba Winter Fair this spring, 16 six-horse teams lined up in the arena. And all were very competitive. Fifty years ago, you would have had trouble finding 16 six-horse hitches in North America (maybe a slight exaggeration!), and certainly at one show.

“New exhibitors sometimes have a tough time breaking into the show business. We had better respect and help them every way we can. We can’t continue without the new people. Take time to visit with new breeders at a show. I can remember several years back, to the first shows we went to. I can’t remember what kind of ribbons we won, but I can still remember the people we met. I’ve never asked to judge a show in my life. A good friend and horseman once told me that anyone who ever asked to judge a horse show is either crazy or crooked.”

Dr. Mike Powers, Armada, Michigan - Dr. Mike is an equine veterinarian and Belgian breeder. He writes, “We have been raising and showing draft horses since 1972. We started going to the larger shows and trying harder since 1984. I accept as few judging positions as possible as I would rather show horses than judge them. I think judging one large show per year is enough. The largest show that I have judged was the Percheron show at the 1997 Ohio State Fair.”

Dennis Mays, Fredericksburg, Ohio - Dennis is a farrier and Percheron breeder and exhibitor. He writes, “I’ve been showing for the past 20 years. I started when I was in the 8th grade. I keep five mares at the present time. My three older mares have been All-Americans a number of times, international champions and one world champion. These mares have also produced three All-American offspring. We’ve recently purchased a mare that we are getting ready for this year.

“On average, I judge five shows a year. I’ve done a number of large shows including the North American Belgian Championship, in Manitoba, Canada, the Calgary Stampede in Alberta, Canada, the National Clydesdale Show in Milwaukee and many other state fairs across the midwest, eastern and southern states.”

Now that you have some background on our panelists, let’s get down to the nitty-gritty.

1. What is your definition of a “conflict of interest” involving the showing of a particular animal?

Barry - “To me, the most blatant ‘conflict of interest’ is owning the horse you are judging. It is extremely difficult to have a knowledgeable judge that does not have involvement in the industry. There has to be some reliance on the person chosen as judge to be impartial...at times, a difficult requirement.”

Eddie - “To me, ‘conflict of interest’ would be judging a horse presently owned by myself or a member of my family. If that were to be extended to a horse I’ve raised or sold, the scope would be too wide. Another ‘conflict of interest’ is judging a member of your family that shows for someone else. On a personal note, that’s why I’ve turned down most judging jobs offered to me during the last three years, because I would have to judge my sons–and that’s not fair to anyone concerned–other exhibitors, the sons’ employers and especially, the sons!”

Dr. Mike - “My definition of a ‘conflict of interest’ would be judging a horse that you or a member of your family currently owns. Any good breeder and/or judge of Belgians certainly knows many horses in the ring. Because of the number of Belgians in this country, I do not believe a horse you raised and sold, or previously owned, is a conflict.”

Dennis - “A conflict of interest arises when the judge has raised or owned a certain animal, sold it and the new owner brings the horse to the show. I feel that if the animal was just purchased from the judge, this is bad business for both parties. If this animal was sold six months to a year prior to the show, I see no problem because this animal can change so much in that length of time for the better or for the worse.”

2. When should a judge “step aside” due to his/her relationship to an entered horse?

Barry - “A judge should step aside when there is a conflict that might influence their decision.”

Eddie - “I feel a judge should ‘step aside’ if he has purchased a horse that is being shown in a class he’s judging, or if he has even part interest in that animal. The same applies if he’s not comfortable, due to having recently sold the horse through private treaty. At an auction, you have no control over who buys your horse. I also feel a judge should ‘step aside’ if he’s judging showmanship and his own family members are showing.”

Dr. Mike - “I would try to avoid taking a judging job where a conflict could arise. If it happened, I would consult with the superintendent and show management. As a judge, you are actually an employee of show management that day.”

Dennis - “I feel a judge should not have to step aside because if he or she is doing a fair and honest job, the horse should be placed where it belongs. I stepped aside and had another qualified person judge a class in a case involving a horse we raised. That horse won the class and when it came time for the championship classes, he was in them and I still had to judge him. In addition, some exhibitors may become upset if the judge steps out of a certain class–The reason being that the exhibitor may have brought a horse in that class and wanted that judge’s opinion of their horse, not someone else’s.”

3. Would it be different for a hitch class? Why or why not?

Barry - “A hitch class should be no different. Actually, it is very difficult for the judge to not have prior knowledge of at least some of the horses brought under his review. The old rule that a judge does not judge ‘outside the gate’ should see the impartial umpire through many of the pitfalls of a small industry where many of us are breeders as well as showpersons.”

Eddie - “Yes. I feel it would be different in a hitch class because you are getting away from the one-on-one. Sometimes, a horse you once owned that is in a hitch may have had four or five owners since he was yours. Hitch classes are usually based on performance, conformation and equipment, so it’s more of an overall assessment.”

Dr. Mike - “No. Judge the hitches on their quality and performance and it doesn’t matter if you raised one of them. Just make sure that you don’t own any of the horses in the hitch at the present time. Do it honestly and with integrity.”

Dennis - “I think it would be easier in the larger hitches to judge one or more horses that you’ve had a relationship with. The judge will be in the wrong if those horses do not work well that day, but the hitch places well. Your carts and teams are tougher to judge if you owned or raised any of the horses. But, again, I must say the true test of their placing should be the way the animals work, their soundness and presentation.”

4. Would the rule be different for a farrier or veterinarian if they were judging the show? Why or why not?

Barry - “The rules should be no different for other equine professionals than there are for the professional horsepeople.”

Eddie - “For a farrier to ‘step aside’ because he’s shod some horses wouldn’t be reasonable, because he may have shod most of the horses in the class! I’ve always felt comfortable with a farrier judging when I’m showing. They usually know a good foot when they see one and know how to shoe it. There are a lot of top horsemen today who are farriers. The foot of the horse and the shoeing job, in many cases, determines the winner or loser of a show.

“As for veterinarians, we don’t have many in our area who work on heavy horses, let alone judge them. I would feel comfortable with a vet the likes of Dr. Neumann, whose career is based around heavy horses, judging my entries.”

Dr. Mike - “No. All judges should be fair and ethical. There should not be partiality because the exhibitor is a client of a farrier or a veterinarian. Do the right thing!! No one gets them ‘all right, all the time,’ but make sure your mistakes are honest and not motivated by who owns the horse.”

Dennis - “No. Being a farrier myself, I’ve had many customers ask how do I think their horse will be placed in a show. In judging, my response to them is when they bring their horse to me it’s time to shoe him and try to get as much out of the horse as we can get. I tell them when they bring them to the show, then it’s a whole different deal. Then, I judge that horse as though I never saw him or her before. If that horse has a problem traveling or standing right, and we’ve corrected it, then that is to the exhibitor’s benefit. Over the years, we have lost customers because I’ve put their horses where I thought they should be placed. The reaction I get from some customers is why didn’t you tell me when I was shoeing their horse that he/she has this wrong or moves that way. My shop or your barn is not the place to judge a horse. If the horse is sound at home and you haul him to a show and he gets hurt, you must put him where he belongs.”

5. Who should back out –the exhibitor or the judge– when both parties know that a situation will arise at an upcoming event? Why?

Barry - “When both parties know of a conflict, the exhibitor should defer to the smooth-running of the show. For the judge to step down, it affects all of the exhibitors, but for the exhibitor to withdraw, it affects only one entry. A problem arises when the shows do not announce the judge ahead of entry time. The fair board does have some responsibility to choose a judge that will work with their exhibitors.”

Eddie - “I feel the judge should back out. Most shows have an alternate judge they can call. The exhibitor has put a lot more preparation in the way of work, time and money to get ready for a show than the judge, so the exhibitor shouldn’t have to back out. It also depends somewhat on the size of the show–small shows have problems getting exhibitors and judges, so sometimes, it just has to be a judgement call.”

Dr. Mike - “I believe this question has to be answered after consulting with the show management. It is up to the show management whether they want to lose a judge or exhibitor.”

Dennis - “The exhibitor. Knowing who the judge is, the exhibitor should not put the judge in the position of making such a call. No matter how honest the judge is, he/she would be the one in the wrong.”

6. If brought to the ring steward’s attention, should he/she make the call or have any part in the decision for a judge to “sit out” a class? How about the horse show superintendent? Why?

Barry - “In some cases, the ring steward is exactly the right person to make the call. In others, the horse show superintendent is the most qualified. These contingencies should be hammered out ahead of the actual show day, if possible. Hiring a well-qualified person to judge avoids some of this.”

Eddie - “A ring steward is usually present for a light horse show. The ring master in a heavy horse show has the job of keeping the show running smoothly and listening to the judge. He is to aid and assist the judge, but really has no authority to decide whether or not the judge should ‘sit out’ a class. The horse show superintendent definitely has the authority to make that decision, because he is in charge of the show. If there are problems with any part of the show, the superintendent will hear about them. If he feels the ringmaster should have such authority, then that should be set up between them.”

Dr. Mike - “All precautions should be taken to make sure a conflict will not become apparent after the show has begun. I do not believe a judge should ‘sit out’ a class. If someone else steps in to judge one class, it has the potential of altering the whole show.”

Dennis - “No. The ring steward’s job is to help the judge with getting the horses in and out of the ring, lining the horses up and to tell the exhibitor’s how the judge wants them to work. The ring steward is in the ring to help out with an unmanageable horse or exhibitor. The horse show superintendent is there to put the horse show rules into effect and make sure that these rules are followed if there is some type of a conflict.”

7. When should the exhibitor simply accept the judge’s decision when a conflict is known? When should he/she protest? Why?

Barry - “In every instance, the exhibitor owes the judge the respect of their decision. Sometimes, what appears at the time to be a conflict of interest, is, in fact, a decision based on the judge’s preference. Sometimes it isn’t. When the latter happens, the exhibitor should go through the protest process as prescribed in the entry book. This formal process is there to save disruptions in the progress of the show. Since the show pays the premiums and also pays the judge, they are the necessary arbitrator of such disputes.”

Eddie - “I think the exhibitor should accept the judge’s decision if the judge’s name was in the prize list, and the exhibitor knew of a possible conflict of interest. When a judge judges a major show, he should know other judges before and after him will have judged the same horses, so each judge should know he has to do his best to honestly judge each class.

“I don’t think a protest should ever be filed. What is it going to prove? If you go to a show and aren’t happy with the results and file a protest, what happens when you’re judging a show and a protest is filed against you? It only causes hard feelings. That’s the nice thing about showing horses, you don’t have the same judge for every show–different shows, different judges. (Along that line, I don’t feel a person should judge two or three major shows in one season.) If you do file a protest, there’s a good chance that come the next day, you will wish you hadn’t.”

Dr. Mike - “The exhibitor should always accept the judge’s decision. If an exhibitor is not willing to accept the judge’s decision in the ring, then they should leave their horses at home. I do not think protesting is the way to go. It has taken all the fun out of the light horse breed shows. Let’s not go there!”

Dennis - “As an exhibitor, I feel that the judge is in the ring for his paid opinion of that day. Don’t forget we are doing this exhibiting of our animals for the breed interest and the fun part of being with our friends–not for making conflicts that shouldn’t be there. It is not good for our breeds as a whole to have a large amount of conflict. As an exhibitor, you’re better off accepting the judge’s opinion that day, because the next day, you’re placing could be completely different under a different judge. Every judge has his or her idea of what makes the best animal. We are showing our different breeds for the public and future buyers. If there are a lot of conflicts among the breeders, potential owners will move on to other breeds. This is happening. I have seen it happen in the last four or five years.”

8. In this day and age, several horsemen and women deal in a large number of horses. At what point should this fact come into play when it comes to judging? Why?

Barry - “Horse people that deal in large numbers are not automatically qualified as good judges. Dealing horses is only part of the trade. Of course, those unscrupulous enough to accept judging to enhance their own gain should be sorted out of the show ring. As with the whole issue of compromised judgement, it is difficult to prove. Sometimes, the insight of having owned the animal works towards the negative in the judges mind.”

Eddie - “In most cases, people who deal in a lot of horses or are top breeders are asked to judge. If you’re breeding good horses and marketing your product, those horses are going to be at shows. If people can’t judge horses they’ve had something to do with, we will end up with a lot of second rate judges. Years ago, most judges were professors, some knowing only what they got from animal husbandry books. That’s not the case today.”

Dr. Mike - “As long as you or your family doesn’t presently own the horse in the ring, then I don’t believe it is a conflict. The judge should always place them to the best of his/her ability, to pick the best horse, not who owned it or raised it.”

Dennis - “When you judge a lot of shows, you are sure to run into either your own breeding or sires and dams that you have had interests in. When you watch a judge and he or she keeps using the same type and style of horse that he/she raises at home, I feel that they are sticking with the type they like. I’ve walked in a ring full of horses that I have no idea what horse has what breeding. If, after I judge and place a class using horses that I like, I find out later that the top horses have the same blood lines as mine at home, it is not political. It just shows that I like the same type of horse that I raise.”

9. Is panel judging the solution? Why or why not?

Barry - “There is no single solution to this judge/conflict issue. Panel judging has a place and some shows use it successfully. You will still find that some exhibitors enjoy name recognition and favor based on past showings and dealings. So, a panel, although non-aligned, still suffers the foibles of humanness in a small community, such as the draft horse world. Panel decisions tend to award the middle, so the underdog may have an even harder time in this system than in what is perceived as the ‘Old Boy’ system.”

Eddie - “I’m definitely against panel judging in halter classes. I’m not in favor of it at all. It's too time-consuming. Besides, I prefer to make my own mistakes! I’m not totally in favor of it in hitch classes, but it does depend on who the other panel members are. It does give you a bit of a comfort zone when there are two or three others making choices. Sometimes one will see something others miss. If you can confer with the other panel members before handing in your card, you can ask to see a hitch or two that might be in question (i.e.: You think one hitch has a lame horse, etc.) on the rail one more time.”

Dr. Mike - “No. This has been discussed at length. Some exhibitors like panel judging for hitches and it may be alright. I’m not in favor of it for conformation classes.”

Dennis - “No. As far as halter classes, I feel it doesn’t work. You take three judges, put all three opinions together, and the average horse wins the class. I’ve seen stallions or mares end up 2nd or 3rd in a class they should have won easily just because one judge didn’t care for it. In hitch classes, it seems to work out better because so much more of your placing depends on how well these animals perform, their soundness, equipment, etc.”

10. Do we need more rules? Why or why not?

Barry - “We really do not need more rules if there is no method for enforcing them. Over the years, I have seen the job of ring steward get as confused as any job at the show. It is an important position as it is the ‘ground zero,’ where your rules are applied. The common rules of showring etiquette are also being ignored. The judge is the decision maker for each class. Conflicts and protests should not be allowed to unfairly disrupt the show for the spectators. Those exhibitors with issues about the judging or the management of the show should address those with show management, not the general public.”

Eddie - “How many rules do we have? To me, one of the nicest things about showing draft horses is that there aren’t a big bunch of rules. Light horses have a big book of rules. That’s when they need their stewards and that’s when you get into a lot of protests. As long as the prize list tells you about ownership of an animal and ownership of animals used in group classes and hitches, I feel that is sufficient. The point being that you don’t need a whole bunch of rules to show draft horses, and I hope it stays that way.”

Dr. Mike - “No, no, no. Draft horse shows are fun. Let’s keep them that way. More rules cause more arguments. Has anyone had kids in ‘Little League Baseball’ lately? They have lots of rules.”

Dennis - “No. The more rules you have, the more conflicts you create. We do need the basic rules, but too many rules are uncalled for.”

11. Do we need judge certification? Why or why not?

Barry - “There already is a certification system, of sorts, in place. Qualified judges prove their mettle in the showring by it. It is a certification by a trade association of peers. Not formal enough for some, perhaps. But, if there is certification, to whom would that job go? What means would be used to accredit or even worse, discredit a judge? Our current system does tend towards flash consciousness, a natural gravitation towards those people most active in the trade. This, however, is not all bad in terms of keeping things current and dynamic.”

Eddie - “Well, again, going back to the light horse breeds, they have to carry a card of certification, and do they have fewer problems? I don’t think so. I feel a judge nominated by his peers is certification enough. If a judge does a poor job judging, he’s not going to get nominated too often, with or without a cart of certification!”

Dr. Mike - “Good judges are soon well known by the exhibitor. Poor judges are also soon found out. Certification sounds good, but I would not know how to implement it. Who would certify and what criteria should we use? The people who are good judges probably would not apply for certification–Just like many good judges don’t advertise their services.”

Dennis - “No. I would not use the word ‘certification.’ I would use the word ‘qualified’ to walk in a ring of forty head of yearlings or foals and pick out his top ten with no trouble. The job that a judge does at a show is what qualifies him or her to do a swift and correct job. If you wonder if the man/woman judging is qualified, walk in the ring and watch to see how he/she goes about inspecting each horse. I watch to see how the judge checks for side bones. If he or she feels in the proper area, then I and everyone else should feel they are qualified.”

12. Do we need breed standards? Why or why not?

Barry - “We need breed standards as badly as we need the various breeds. Breed standards enhance the usefulness of the animal by placing a priority on those qualities of the beast that allows it to do the job better than those adapted for other purposes. It is disheartening to see such a division between halter and hitch classes, when our draft breeds were developed to be both. It is sad to have a judge that ignores the separate breed characteristics of each draft breed, because it denies the generations of development that has given us the modern draft horse. Not knowing breed standards has gotten more than one judge to slip into the type of conflict of interest issues we have been discussing; by choosing a ‘popular’ horse or known exhibitor/breeder instead of having the knowledge to thoroughly examine the animal ‘on the string’ and place it accordingly.”

Eddie - “I have trouble with this one. I’ve always had a standard in mind when I judged–keeping sound horses in the winner’s circle is one of them. D.J. Kays said, ‘Livestock judging consists of making a careful analysis of animals measuring them against a standard commonly accepted as the ideal.’ He was probably a good judge–I wish I had known him. I believe we all have a breed standard in mind. Everyone doesn’t like the same type or standard and each person judges accordingly. I look back to the 1950s –Meadow Brook’s Linda was the mare to beat and Conquest, the stallion, was champion most places. They would be competitive today. Do we need breed standards? I believe so.”

Dr. Mike - “Yes. We need standards, not only for new judges, but also to help new exhibitors see why their horses are placed the way they are. I think many new exhibitors go away thinking that ‘the same ones always win.’ If the standards for judging were more clear to them, they could see that often times, ‘the same ones lead the best horses.’ We need to keep explaining what we are looking for and what we consider important. (I’m not advocating giving reasons in the show ring.)”

Dennis - “No. I have attended too many meetings trying to set a breed standard. This would be a big mistake. You let the supply and demand set the standard. A 16.1 hand horse can do things that an 18.2 hand horse couldn’t think about doing so easy. But, the 18.2 hand horse can do things easier than the smaller horse. That’s the great thing about the draft breeds...they are so very versatile.